Giving to Ruidoso Fire Relief? Be Prudent and Cautious When Using Zelle - Tips From A Consumer Advocate
I LOVE the Outpouring of Support, But Some Methods Give me Pause as an Ex-Bank Manager
So… I will be back on the Sun Bowl/Concert beat in a few days, but I want to write this column, because honestly, my public profile as “The Notorious Banker” was being the person who told it like it is regarding banking and regarding how certain things are. I almost didn’t want to write this column, because ironically enough, I am launching my own non-profit really soon. More about that soon.
But I am doing it because I want to give back. I do give back now, and will continue to give back going forward. 16 years ago, I made the decision to move to Las Cruces, and it was the best thing I ever did. It helped my career, helped me network, and allowed me to learn a lot of things about my industry: Banking.
One thing I learned: This area is AMAZINGLY kind and loving and supportive when it wants to be. From the 2019 Walmart Shooting to the recent wildfires in Ruidoso that started this week, you see people at their best. You really do.
There has been so much given to Ruidoso residents just in this week alone, that the City of Ruidoso told people to give cash donations to a nonprofit organization that they highlighted in a post. I am glad they did that.
For the better part of a week, my mind has been with the victims of this horrific event, and even if people are insured and they come out uninjured, the long arduous process to make a comeback can be too much for some people. I saw it firsthand when I worked at Bank of America.
What I also saw firsthand: People scamming one another, and people not realizing the tools we all use can actually be weaponized for fraudulent purposes. What I am going to be explaining here is something I have cut my teeth on for years,
I have been on the record as a consumer/bank advocate against for many years, including stints as an expert on TV news programs, and as The Notorious Banker, I have recovered over a million dollars plus in funds lost through Zelle fraud, including helping a PGA Professional, Pro Wrestler, ESPN Host, Movie Director, and countless people all across the country with lesser profiles.
It was my pride and joy to help them when banks couldn’t.
Inner City Gymnastics/Circus Performer Group
PGA Professional Golfer
ESPN/MLB Network Host
It’s my pet project since 2019: Helping folks Bank Better, which is why I was known as “BankBetterGuy” on Twitter until Elon Musk deleted all dormant accounts and I got my “NotoriousBanker” Handle. I have made some awesome friends in the media, hardcore reporters who protect consumers on a bigger scale than I ever did.
But of course, 13 years as a BofA manager, you learn some things, and I will be the first to tell you that Zelle is not safe. I was there when it was launched, and I have seen the effects of Zelle fraud, and it is not fun.
I disliked Zelle so much, I had to be convinced to go to a basketball game sponsored by Zelle. I have written a book about Zelle that I will one day publish.
I even walked onto Zelle World HQ in Phoenix
Let me be the first to say, that if you lose money through Zelle, that’s it. It’s not insured, despite what people think about it. When you opt into Zelle, which is owned by Early Warning Services LLC, which is a company owned by Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Chase and others, you basically are agreeing that anything that leaves your account is considered an “authorized transaction” even if you transpose someone’s phone number or email address in the process and the incorrect number is active with Zelle at that moment.
So if my number is 575-555-5551 and I accidentally put 575-555-5555, and that number is owned by someone else not who I wanted to send it to, they will get the money instantly, and banks almost never want to help you reverse it, instead telling you to reach out to the person and fix it yourself.
It’s a dirty little secret of Zelle, and to be frank other cash apps like… Cash App (owned by Block - Formerly Square) and Venmo (owned by Paypal).
I have been a bank manager trying to fix this for people and seeing how bad the customer service was. I have seen people get told lies when they are defrauded or they made an error in sending the money. The company line with banks was “Zelle is a third party service” meaning even though they are integrated in your bank.
Now, with any type of big tragedy like the Ruidoso Wildfires, you get those amazing people sending water, baby food, clothes, tampons, toys, cell phone chargers and every little thing you can think of. It’s amazing. Those are thoughtful people in the true meaning of the word.
I watched the local news on Wednesday night and came across another set of heroes giving their energy to helping those in Ruidoso. Keller Williams, a realty company, had a segment on KFOX-TV in El Paso. The story leads off with a video of a case of Gatorade and then it immediately pivots to a personal cell phone number and mentions that Zelle Donations can be made to that number.
As a banker, I didn’t like that one bit, because here’s the thing. With fraud, I used to talk about “leakage” meaning that there are parasites out there who are looking for any angle to try to get some of that money that is flowing into Ruidoso. There’s always folks like that, don’t I know it from banking…
Leakage reminds me of a scene from the movie Casino
But seeing this image:
As a banker it gives me pause and it brings back PTSD memories of bank fraud that happens everyday. So this was on KFOX, which gets about 10k viewers a night. I had to rewatch this newscast on a Roku app to get to this story for this photo.
Here’s one reason I don’t like the taking of Zelle Donations:
It’s going into someone’s personal bank account and not a business account. I did a reverse phone search on the cell number, and it is a private Verizon number. Zelle is not offered for business customers at all banks. Your account has to be a certain type of account in order to do it, but most don’t. I am certain it’s a personal account, and regardless of intent, I would be leery.
Let’s say the number is 915-222-2222 and I accidentally send it to 915-222-2223 and it processes and is “completed” and it goes to Debbie from down the Street and not the intended person
Even if I found out I messed up on the number, my bank won’t help me reroute it back to Keller Williams and instead I have to rely on Debbie from Down the Street to resend it back to me, which believe me rarely happens. Most of the time those people won’t respond to calls or texts.
This is where fraud happens: Scammers are great at deception. This is where the “Pay Yourself Scam” happens. They now know this phone number is tied to Zelle, so they plan their attack on stealing money from you. This is where someone can call you claim to be from your bank and direct you to change your phone number that accepts Zelle and if they get you to change it, they commandeer your actual number and put it in their own account, which is also usually stolen as well. So now a Zelle crook can ruin your life by blasting your phone number the way you did
This is from Zelle’s own website
By the time you figure out what is going on, it is likely been moved again or converted to digital currency. Scary shit! Don’t say it won’t work on you. I have been on the phone with these scammers while at BofA, and they are good. Got all the terminology right, but for instance at BofA, there’s an internal way to identify these folks and they can never get past that. This still happens and there are very little safeguards, so the awesome lady at KW is now at risk of being a high-risk Zelle victim because of that story that is now forever on the internet.
You want to trust everyone you come into contact with, but even banks say only send Zelle to people you know trust, and although you are a member of the business community, I myself don’t know you.
Let me put it this way: I got my job as a manager at BofA because some horrible lady embezzled $20,000 from a poor retired doctor in Las Cruces. She didn’t do time, but she lost her job and I got her job. The number on the KFOX story is for the CEO of Keller Williams, so I am certain she won’t be doing anything like that, but again, that blind trust is something that we in banking always tell people not to do.
We are taught don’t turn your back on your cash drawer even if your coworker is your bestie. We are taught do always have your alarm in your hand ready to get help even if it is you and your boss closing the vault. It’s hardcore to not have that deep-rooted trust, but that’s the financial industry, and Keller Williams is a place that should be cognizant of that since it is in essence a similar industry as banking.
A handwritten sign does not elicit trust to me.
The agents of KW also shared the Zelle donation Call to Action on their social media pages.
Plus, a Spanish-Language TV reporter had the owner of said Zelle account plus a KW Employee who translated it to Spanish for her in the interview:
Go to her Instagram page for the full interview
It really bothered me from a banker’s perspective as it pertains to fraud potential how money is being handled, so I reached out to the phone number of Keller Williams that was on the story and I asked a question as a prospective donor (which I am) and this is what I got:
I was overwhelmed by a lot of texts in a short amount of time. What I get from this person is they are definitely a team leader of some sort. Organized to the gills which is great. We need more people like that in this world.
But a couple things:
The coordination is impeccable, and I will feel good about giving goods to KW 100000% because she had a list and she has contacts. I was impressed and wouldn’t mind working for a person like that. Attention to detail, man…
Here’s the issue I have re: Zelle. The message is that it will be used to buy things to give to shelters… those things mentioned in her list. Now, I would feel way better if the money went to those shelters and THEY bought it or just to a charity directly. Why does it have to be to you to go do the buying? Why am I paying you to use your rewards credit card, earn points on my money, or travel miles?
Or my thing: I am an extreme couponer. My $20 might go farther than her $20 she receives from me. In fact, I know it would, so it made me not want to give monetary donations since I know it is more of a middleman shopping thing. I will say there is no one in this area who grocery shops like me, and that’s a fact.
Let’s say there is $10,000 raised and it comes from her personal account and at the end it is given in donation form to a shelter (which I know it is not), then that person can receive the benefit of a charitable donation.
Again, not saying that is happening here, but if I gave someone $10 with Zelle, and they use my $10 to give to a charity, there are tax benefits that go along with that for the person who received my $10. They can get a charity receipt at that point, and there’s no way to show I did it. It’s…cloudy.
I applaud the efforts of KW, but the use of Zelle is a very high-risk way of transacting with even your most trusted of clients.
Second one I saw was ironically enough from a bank. Pioneer Bank in New Mexico is located in many cities throughout the state, HQ’d in Roswell.
Full Disclosure: I knew a couple people who worked at Pioneer in Roswell and Las Cruces, I went to college in Roswell for a time, and I applied to work at Pioneer after I left BofA, but realized I couldn’t mentally handle the job anymore. I am better at this writing thing.
I didn’t see it directly from Pioneer themselves, but noticed that an email address linked to Zelle was shared on social media, and I was hypercritical of it on Twitter
I am sharing the real Pioneer Bank email address for a reason to be explained later.
Now, my thing with giving is it should come from the heart, and by no means am I questioning anyone who spends time and energy giving back.
However, when I see a bank telling you to Zelle them money, and I as a former bank manager immediately think, “What account is this going into?” because it doesn’t just magically appear in the vault.
EWS through Zelle routes the money into an account. Again, just as a banker, I think of these things. Is it a savings account where it is going to earn interest? Obviously banks earn interest on your money, something I heard from a million old people in my time as a bank manager.
But it bugged me, because hundreds of hours of fraud prevention training told me that people/companies that just put out their sensitive info like that willy-nilly are at more risk from fraud than the average person. I just think of all the hours of work trying to help people who are victims of fraud. So I needed to know through my Aunt: Where is the money going?
Hi Rosana,
You do not have to be a customer here to send donations. The QR code will allow you to use a debit or credit card to send, Zelle is available if your financial institution offers it.
We have not identified which charity we will be working with at this point. It is our desire that 100% of the donations go to the Ruidoso Relief efforts and not another disaster. In the past (for other situations) fundraising efforts have been directed to a local 501c3 involved with the efforts.
We are happy to help walk you through processing a donation if needed.
I really like the reply a lot. It took time to respond and she offered to help, which is admirable. Most banks would not give a fuck about you. No one I worked with did, and when I did, I would get yelled at… “They are not your customers, James!”
…But they could be one day.
If KW is gathering money to buy goods and Pioneer Bank is holding it until they “identify” a charity, my next question would be, “Why are you waiting to identify a charity?” It can go anywhere and will be helpful as long as its local. They should know who to give to…they are a bank!.
The reason I am bothered by this is because the money isn’t being put to good use right away, which makes me think it is going to stay there until an oversized check is presented (note: I wrote this in the early afternoon, and below you will see that I found an oversized check presentation as I wrapped this up), along with the ability to write it off as a charitable contribution.
It seems like it shouldn’t matter, but I think it does. I can think of many charities off the bat who could use that to help victims today, so how come you are not there yet in finding one according to my Aunt’s email?
1000000% of course Pioneer is going to donate this money, but please identify your partners, as you are a local bank and should know who already before you ask for money. It’s…not right. The non-answer was kind of scary to me just thinking of my past as a banker.
My advice to Pioneer, figure that part out please.
Here’s another thing that makes me worry, and don’t say it’s not something to worry about, because it is.
The uniqueness of their pioneer.bank url is not lost on me too.
When I see a .bank or a .vegas or .AI, I am always curiously skeptical. This coming from a man who’s email is james@jamesb.info (yes, you can email me there). It just feels cheap. I always tell my wife, “They couldn’t spend the extra $5 for a .com?” Although I can show you how to pay for a .com for $1. Told a friend of my column, Paul, how to do that for his business interests because it works and eye catching.
But say I went to pioneerbank.com like an old grandpa would thinking it is NEW MEXICO’S Pioneer Bank and instead, this is what I get
It gives this spammy “install this software” page, and it tells me to go to pioneerbnk.com, which is not what I typed in. So it tells me that this is spam, and possible ransomware/malware going on my computer. I checked the online WHOIS:
It says “name.com” is the owner, which is bullshit. I buy domains all the time, and I mask my info through the company I buy the domains from. It’s S.O.P. now but, because it is hidden tells me that pioneerbank.com is owned by an entity that I am uncertain is a good or bad entity.
So let’s say the person who bought it is aware of all the other Pioneer Banks in the country. There are a lot of them, and is familiar with their domain names. What’s to stop this person from setting up a phony post as Pioneer Bank of New Mexico and telling people to Zelle money to: firesupport@pioneerbank.com? (which is not the correct Zelle…see what I mean?)
All it takes is for them to set up that email address (which they could since they own the domain) and link it to a stolen bank account, put that email address on Twitter and siphon the money away from the charitable efforts, all because a bank, which is trained on infosec, decided to blast out an email address that was created strictly for this effort using a very rare .bank domain name. Make sense?
I am not critiquing their intent, I am critiquing a bank that is putting clients at risk for fraud via Zelle, a platform that is near impossible to recoup your money from when it is stolen as my 6 years of work have shown everyone!
I see people giving expensive food items I would never buy for myself, diapers I fear buying when I become a father, and giving the most important thing to me in this world: My Time… It’s amazing. The people of Southern NM and surrounding areas, my people, make me cry. I am so damn proud of them.
I write this column because I see flawed logic in how two companies are accepting cash for donations by putting themselves and others at risk by using Zelle as the main platform for fundraising when Zelle is not intended to be used like that, and PIONEER SHOULD KNOW THAT.
13 years of managerial experience tells me this as well working at BofA as I did.
I will leave with one other weird point of emphasis about moving money through Zelle, and it has to do with KW and Pioneer Bank. Both are in the business of putting people into homes, right?
Funny enough, the public display of KW’s phone number led me to a sales deck for a weekly/monthly meeting at KW that referenced sales and revenue goals and 99.99999999999999% resembled a Bank of America sales meeting which gave me PTSD. I am not kidding, I saw it and panicked. I never want to live that life again, and KW and Pioneer Bank would be lucky to have someone as skilled as me.
Here’s the link to it lol
But anyway, the goal of KW is to get you into a home, and the goal of a bank like Pioneer Bank is to get you a mortgage. Smaller banks like Pioneer usually are the best to get you into the home, though they eventually sell your mortgage to another company.
Anyway, if you have bought a house “the old fashioned way” in the last decade, meaning financing it, right, Judge Reinhold in “Ruthless People?”
… you will know that the underwriting process is arduous. I don’t know about Pioneer Bank, but at BofA, where I am proud to have put 143 people into homes over the course of a decade personally (and did loan closings on 3x that amount) underwriting is a bitch.
They look at EVERYTHING. If you had too many ATM withdrawals in one month that dipped your average balance a few hundred bucks, you need a long letter of explanation as to why.
You made the same amount of money 14 paychecks in a row and the 15th one included a bonus and/or a retroactive raise? They will treat you like you are Bernie Madoff and DEMAND to know why you have more money all of a sudden? Did you get a loan from someone to pay for the closing of this home? This money isn’t seasoned, do you have more in reserves? Why? Why? Why? Why? It sucks.
Keller Williams should know like the people at Exit Realty who had to help me buy my home that BofA sucks and is terrible to do business with, because they make the home loan process bad and cause a lot of stress. I used to get yelled at ALL the time for stuff that wasn’t my doing because the bank would ask questions like “Why did you do this?” or “Why did you move money from this account to that?”
So I got really smart at the end of my run.
I was adult enough to tell prospective homebuyers, “Be prudent with how you move money around your accounts. Consider the home buying process an audit of how you handle your finances, because they will ask dumb questions and look for any reason to cancel the loan.” (I have tons of stories I will one day tell)
People trusted me. I couldn’t lie to them, because if they don’t get their home, I don’t get a bonus. I needed that money just as bad as they wanted that house. No I didn’t make as much as realtors.
So you know what comes up during the process???
Weird Zelle/Venmo/Checking Activity.
“Say, Mr. Customer. I noticed you had $5000 come into your account in increments of $25-$100 over the course of 2 weeks in 2024, and then I saw $5000 being spent in a 2 day span. What was that about?”
“Oh, that? I was helping raise money for a natural disaster here in New Mexico?”
“So… You are comingling charity funds with your personal account?”
“No… I asked people to send me money so I can buy stuff to help people out.”
“I think I am going to need to see receipts, and if you are doing a non-profit out of your personal account, we may have to look at all the numbers again”
So, the way the Keller Williams person is accepting money is something that would 100% impact the people looking to buy homes with them if those clients were doing the exact same thing and financing with a big bank like my former company or Wells Fargo or Chase.
Now, with the bank accepting Zelle donations as well and parking the money only to eventually move it out is bad practice as well. This is why I am not a fan of Zelle, because it creates the illusion of nefariousness when Pioneer was only trying to help out like everyone else.
As of 6/20/2024 or the day I had my Aunt Rosana reach out, Pioneer Bank gave $20,000, I’m assuming some of that was their own money and gave it to the Salvation Army, who is going to distribute gift cards to fire victims. Bravo! Nothing wrong with that, because people will need them.
Weird that she didn’t identify the charity though this photo was taken same day.
But if I gave Salvation Army $100 from my own pocket for the same thing, I would be able to document that on my taxes. I would not be able to prove that a random Zelle transfer was for charity from me. I could have been buying used office chairs from Pioneer for all someone knows, and if we are here saying it’s ok to celebrate people who give back, which it 100% is, I think it’s a fair point to make.
Why should there be a middleman? It’s an extra step, unnecessary but to create a round number and a photo op with an oversized check.. an oversized check I myself own as well BTW.
I helped a very famous Georgia Tech Professor Recover $45,000 IN Closing costs that disappeared because BofA gave wrong instructions and he was told they couldn’t get it back. I got it back in 10 minutes.
That was my biggest recovery!
It’s all about optics and while I want the best of the best to come through for people who are their clients and even potential clients, I want the bank, KW, and people to be safe in spreading the love because there is a lot of misinformation out there and NOT a lot of recourse!
Quick story before I go. A dozen years ago (when I had hair) I was told by my boss that BofA was going to be sending over a check that we were going to present, her and I to a charity that BofA chose to give money to.
We didn’t even know where to go, we had to wait for the Fedex package for the check. Turned out it was a battered woman’s shelter. No, I am not going to call it a “intimate partner violence” center. It’s for women and kids who get beat. I know because my mom got help through there like 30 years ago, and I am a child of that system. Ok? Ok.
So we get the check, we figure out where to go, and we meet the person who runs it. In the letter from BofA we are TOLD to take a photo with the check and us, and because I was the only man who worked at BofA, It would be noble for a man to give this check too and be in the photo. So I went with her to present it, and I got this photo forever stuck in my head.
I hate that tie and I hate that I was a prop in a photo op for charity that my boss and I didn’t even know we were supposed to do until we were told to.
When we got to the branch, we were told to upload this picture (it was taken on my phone) so it can be shared in a sales meeting the next day.
We upload it and it is shared, and the next day, I got about 100 emails from people telling me what a great guy I was for giving that money to someone and putting all these things on me that I didn’t deserve. I didn’t do shit other than BofA said “we need a guy in the photo” and I was the only guy so…
I was just a prop. I was just the token guy in a photo for a place that helped people who get beaten up by people who look like me.
But everyone loved me and couldn’t stop emailing me internally.
It fucked me up because I truly saw how performative some charity is… I had so much self-hate. I felt phony. BofA could have literally just said eenie meenie miney mo and picked them. There was no thought or research…just a $2500 check.
That’s why when I donate food, I go to little pantries and not the big food pantry in town. I don’t want the recognition. I just want to help anonymously. I do post about it, but only because I don’t want the food to spoil or get bugs.
If you want to help people and it makes you feel good…cool. If you want to help people to get kudos, I ain’t going to hate you for it, but when customers are put at risk for impractical ways to raise money, I got to say something.
I wrote this knowing half the people may not know what the fuck I am talking about, and the other half not really reading and thinking I am shitting on people helping.
Nope. Far from it. I salute you all.. but be safe in helping people, and don’t put you or others at risk by your methods please! Your willingness to show blind love in helping can put you and others at risk!
Thinking of you Ruidoso. If you want to give to the efforts, and you don’t want a middleman, here’s the website again!
I got a story about the media and the Ruidoso Fires coming up as well.
If you find me interesting, please subscribe!
-James